Jamelia Kaggwa of Show Time Events & Davis Musinguzi of Rocket Health join Melanie to discuss if and what what toll entreprenuership takes on your social life. Both get candid about how the risks in business play out in family life and how to mitigate some of the strains the business will put on family life. The discussion delves also into the financial burden some may feel as well as societal pressure to conform. Also explored is the typical mindset of the Entreprenuer and if they think their highest priority are their businesses or their friends & family
Melanie, Davis, Jamelia
M
Melanie
0:12
Hi, welcome to another episode of EMS view. And by the way, in case you have any thoughts on any episodes that you listen to including this one, please feel free to just interact with the show. And on Twitter, it's least a bully, right? That's my handle. And on Facebook, it's Emma's view as well. And just let me know what you think. Okay, so, today's episode, well, we're just going to go into a couple things. But specifically, I have a bunch of interesting people, right in the studio with me today. And we're going to talk about but before we're going to talk about intrapreneurship, but not how to start a business because we're not going to bang your head with this. You hear this all the time, we're going to talk about something that very few people all that you know, very few people, few people just get into, what is the tall of entrepreneurship on your social life? Right. So your family, your friends, your lovers, your kids, you, your pals, your your parents. What's that tool and joining me in the studio today are two interesting people. So the first one is Jamila cogwa. Hi, Jamelia.
J
Jamelia
1:20
Hi, I'm good. Thank you. Very happy to be here. Okay.
M
Melanie
1:24
And the second person is Davis missing Boise. Hi, Davis. How are you? Hey. Okay, so now before we kind of get into it, I just want to go into I'm just gonna give both of you just a shot and an opportunity to short opportunity just to tell us what you guys do. Just in your own words. Nothing super crazy. Is that Jamelia?
J
Jamelia
1:46
Okay, so my name is Jamila kakwa. Like Melanie said, I'm into events, decoration and planning. Yeah, I've been doing this for the last 10 years,
M
Melanie
1:57
say a decade or a decade. It gives you the gravitas. And those,
D
Davis
2:07
I'm Davis, I'm the CEO of rocket health, telemedicine and last mile health care company that has been around for a decade.
M
Melanie
2:19
And you know what, let me just say this for for those of us who are not doing the things you entrepreneurs are doing. I know you guys don't seem to think it's a big deal. But it is a big deal, especially with the lifespan of businesses in this country. Very few people go past the 50 year mark. If so to be able to stick to it and stick your guns and just do it right. And then hit that 10 year mark. Come on man, not not a small feat. My guys, so So yes, we celebrate all the intrapreneurs even though the ones that even the ones that have done one, year two, year three or four, whichever, because it's, it is not for the faint hearted. And we celebrate with every one of you out there that is listening. So now we're going to talk about this. And the reason as to why am I really, really interested in this is because I figure because you entrepreneurs a bit different, YOU'RE BUILT different, you're built for risk, you're built for creativity, you're also built to go against the flow of employment, but then that must have some form of taxation or toll on your social lives. Right? Because you're taking a risk that most people are not. So we'll start with the gym area when it comes to being an entrepreneur, what is the thing that happened to you socially that you are not prepared for that you think? Okay,
J
Jamelia
3:46
um, you know, when you're starting out is not the same as you know, when you progress into it. Yeah. But in a nutshell, you lose quite a lot of relationships along the way. Because I this has happened to me personally, because I don't have time to engage. I don't hang out. Okay, I can't make it for weddings. I can't make it for anything that normal people do on weekends. I'm not able to do that. I just can't, I can either be tired and sleeping or I'm working. Okay. So it's been a big one. In the beginning, you're like, Oh, I'm going to do a wedding. I'm going to do ABCD and then afterwards, I'll dress up and attend the wedding. It's my friend's wedding or whatever. Mm hmm. By the time I'm done, I'm just too wasted. Mm hmm. So I don't socialize. You've got if you want to socialize with me, you've got to actively seek me out. Okay, okay. Okay. That's a big one. Okay.
M
Melanie
4:37
Okay. Davis, do you feel the same way?
D
Davis
4:39
I think in very many ways, the same way I started the business when I was 26. I didn't have much in terms of obligations and responsibilities. So it seemed pretty easy for a while until you realize the toll on your time that it takes to start and run and build a big business. And what I have had to do to become very deliberate about choosing to spend time you let it happen to you, then you'll easily find yourself out of relationships.
M
Melanie
5:09
Okay. Okay. So just start with you, David, what are the kinds of things you've been doing deliberately to kind of make sure you kind of stay in touch with your social connections? whichever ones they are?
D
Davis
5:20
Yeah, it doesn't matter whether it's lunches, brunches, breakfast. I mean, I never used to have breakfast meetings now. on somebody, you know, can you meet up at 7:30am? For breakfast? Okay. Because that's the only time you're going to get to do that. Ah, okay. And then, you know, sometimes you just have to meet people much later in the evening or closer to home or, yeah, things like that. But you do get to miss out on a lot. As a result,
M
Melanie
5:45
okay. Now, Jamila, for you, what are the things you're doing in terms of trying to keep your social things happening?
J
Jamelia
5:53
Okay, first of all, my time is very, my timetable is very different than everybody else's. I want to hang out on a Monday. Everybody, everybody's working. Yeah. So yeah, like Davey say, Do do random things like breakfast, find people at their offices, you know, move from your house. And if I want to meet with you, Melanie, and you're working on a Monday, we're going to do lunch, I'm in my house, I'm sleeping all day. And it's Monday is a lazy day for me. I've got to come closer to you. If I want to hang out with you. I can't expect to wait for you to finish work, I'll come near your office and maybe have lunch, catch up like that catch up on the phone, the phone, sometimes it's not so good. Because there's times when I'm too tired to even just look at it
M
Melanie
6:34
to engage. You just like, take people and just say you will understand even
J
Jamelia
6:39
late exam. Yes, that is sometimes just go past. Yeah. And read messages. And yes, I'll start a new page. Yeah, so you've got to be very deliberate.
M
Melanie
6:51
So now, now, for me. The question is now when it comes to expectations from family, from children, and Davis, I'll start with you. How do you handle those? Like now if you have, you know, a significant other kids? Oh, kid? How do you because everyone is asking for time. And partners need time. Kids need time? How does that work for you?
D
Davis
7:16
And everybody's asking for a piece of you. Because, you know, they make it sound so simple. It's it's just one hour. But if everybody asked for one hour, there'll be no hours left in the day. And and sometimes some people can find it very difficult to understand that you can be really, really busy. Sometimes they actually think you're bragging that you're busy. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I've seen that happen before. I think I think the way that I've tried to resolve it is to say not at least in a month, there will be on two occasions, you know, one hour or two hours spent with family. So it may not necessarily be quantity time. I just tried to make sure it's quality time. Okay, so I think it's about being very deliberate and say, you know, okay, every other Sunday, I will at least pass by, even if it's 30 minutes, one hour, I can tick that box. Yes, I think sometimes about ticking a box then. And spending quality time than, you know, trying to let it happen randomly.
M
Melanie
8:16
Mm hmm. Okay, so now, Jimmy, I have a question for you. And I'm going to go back to Davis on this one. Some people enter the intrapreneurship gateway space, and they, you know, they they kind of ease into it. So they will keep their regular day job. And then they'll, you know, do this and then they'll get into the entrepreneurship then completely when it is picked up, then they'll let go of their regular day job. Others just go cold turkey and just cut all these ties in the back. And then now for people like huge Amelia, who went cold turkey and said, You know what? There's nothing backing me up. Let me just go into this headfirst. What were the challenges, especially on the home front, when it comes to money, the expectation of money and regular flow because you see when you have you and you're regularly employed, there's the assumption that this regular banker or man that comes in count on but then when you're an entrepreneur and you just starting out, it might not be that regular and that predictable. What what's your experience in that? That area?
J
Jamelia
9:23
Okay, at the time I started out, I resigned from from my regular job. First of all, my husband couldn't even understand it. It's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, You know what, I'm just this is a leap of faith. Yeah, yeah. You just got to get on with me. Luckily, at the time, he had a regular job. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It wasn't so much of a problem. We sort of React readjusted out the way we spend at all okay, just to fit within what was available at the time. Yeah. Honestly, I can't remember it was such a long time ago. I don't particularly remember having a big issue. With that. I think it was more about how do we manage our spending Now that we have one income, that kind of
M
Melanie
10:02
thing, yeah. Did you explain to him your lack of a better term your vision for him to buy in and be okay with it? Or was that a gradual process?
J
Jamelia
10:12
When I resigned from my job, there was no vision. It was just, I'm not getting along with this. My boss. I love doing this. So I threw in the towel. not starving.
M
Melanie
10:23
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
J
Jamelia
10:28
I used to do this as a hobby friend's weddings. Oh, Jamila, please? Obviously the decor coming. What are we doing wrong? Have we missed anything here? And then stuff like that? Yeah. And then one day out of the blue a couple of weeks after had resigned. And this is really good, because I don't know how it happened. Somebody comes up to me and tells like this, this big gig. And somebody has pulled us in your direction. I'd never done that. If you had never done like before. Like I was doing birthday parties and baby shower. Yes. You know, doing the big. Like, can you do it? I say yes. And I had never done I didn't even have the tools. Cloud. I was like, I cannot fail. If it's in Kampala here. I will find my way. And the rest is history as they say that not that one gig.
M
Melanie
11:15
Yeah. pushed me. Okay.
J
Jamelia
11:19
I don't even know it was God. Yeah. Because I resigned. I wasn't planning on I'm going to do this or that or the other. So find find something to do. I was I think I was about 28.
M
Melanie
11:30
Okay, I was I was happy, supportive.
J
Jamelia
11:34
He was he was afraid of the unknown. And that's that's natural. Right? Yeah. He was afraid of the unknown. It's like, maybe you we should have canned or what you're going to do before we? And I was like, No, I can't stand that. Ready. I will. Let's plan now. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And, you know, back then events were not a big thing at all. You couldn't even see the vision, there was no way you would even think I'm going to do this and make it work. And in 10 years, this is where it's going to be. You could not Yeah, yeah. So we just went along. Okay. Okay. And David,
M
Melanie
12:07
did you do the cold turkey thing? Or did you do the gradual thing?
D
Davis
12:11
I did the gradual thing. Okay.
M
Melanie
12:13
And was there still that again? intrapreneur intrapreneurship. Was there still that that shock of?
D
Davis
12:20
Of course. Okay. You do the graduate thing? They still comes the cliff?
M
Melanie
12:25
And yes, and you have to exactly let go. Right. Yeah.
D
Davis
12:29
There comes that decision point. Yeah, you actually have to make that decision to let go. And almost inevitably that you will be letting go parks and a promised future? Yeah, it's, you know, it took us maybe three, four years before we finally made the money in salary that we left behind.
M
Melanie
12:49
Ah, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So,
D
Davis
12:52
I think it is important for people to do it gradually, that they can understand what the prospects of their business actually are. You also need to recognize that point in time where the business is not going to grow any bigger than the time that you give it. And you have to make that hard decision.
M
Melanie
13:08
You have to make that sacrifice and let go the other thing and just concentrate on that thing. How did how did you explain it to those close to you? And in your case, because we haven't spoken in a while I'm going to assume significant others if they were family, if they were like, how did did they accept that?
D
Davis
13:28
I think the context was interesting. I was working at UNICEF had a stable, you snuck onto it and held on to it.
M
Melanie
13:40
Because typically, you guys are lifers people
D
Davis
13:43
in a nice corner.
M
Melanie
13:49
Nice, very nice. Yeah, I
D
Davis
13:51
need a lot of my colleagues that I worked with are now in, you know, the HQ in New York, you know, fancy jobs and crazy money. And, you know, I was still slugging and slogging away at it. So, yeah, I think I think I think you have to be clear about what the promises and what value is. If the value is things like purpose and mission, I think it makes sense. If, if, at that point in time, it's just purely making money. I think, give it some time. Yeah. Because what's really going to carry you through is the conviction in the mission and the purpose of what you're trying to build, okay, more than even what the money is what the money is, because the money takes a while. So it really comes through. Okay,
M
Melanie
14:36
so let me ask you, and because I interacted with you quite a bit years ago, right. And one time you shared your vision, and I was like, wow, wow. You know, and to see you now you're like that. Yep. He did it. But it was nothing that we'd seen here. here, right? So how did you sell that to the people that are closest to you? Like, was there? Was there a lady in your life at that time of ladies in your life along the way that you had to convince that? Hey, babes, I'm doing the correct thing. Your family for that matter, as well? Was, was there any resistance there? Because the thing that you're doing is kind of a bit of a novelty? Actually, no, it's not a bit of it is a novelty. So how did you get them to buy in? And was there resistance? How did you deal with any resistance?
D
Davis
15:30
I mean, when I think about it, I've never really ever asked permission for the things that I wanted. Okay, yeah, I think that yeah, played an important role is changing schools that I chose, as one the school that I chose for HSC. The courses that I chose to do and what I chose to do with it, after I'd got that course, I think I'd always been very stubborn and rebellious in insisting on doing things the way that I want to do it. And I think even when I thought about how I wanted to practice medicine and healthcare, it was a departure from, you know, years from the norm. Exactly. And also when I worked at UNICEF, and I realized the flaws of the development space in really, truly achieving the impact that it needs to achieve. And choosing to break away from that to build a business I never attended one point had to seek anyone's permission. So of course, I will try to labor to help them understand the size of the opportunity, but was never to really ask for their permission to be able to do it.
M
Melanie
16:34
It's funny when you say that, because then I get that same exact sense from Jamiyah as well. And then you also get the sense that when you read books, or you hear other entrepreneurs speaking things, that thing that they're like, guys may just did my thing, like I had to say it seems like and correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of people who decide to do business, especially entrepreneurship, in that sense, are like, Hey, make or break, you either join the bus, we get off. I'm just going right. So so maybe I guess it takes that tenacity, but also that dog doggedness that you guys just lock onto something and you don't see no one talks you out of it.
D
Davis
17:10
I hope and pray that it's informed at least I think if your family if your friends if your spouse, at least ask them questions to give you or give them the confidence that it is a somewhat informed decision. You know, what do you know about opportunity? What do you know about this line of work? Is there somebody you're talking to that's guiding you just create an environment around them to make any kind of unforeseen uncertainties kind of more aware? Or at least more top of mind for them that while they're getting into it,
M
Melanie
17:44
yeah. Okay, so now and now, because while you guys were talking, I kept on thinking about this now as Ugandans right. Maybe most of you can I could I could I stand to be corrected. We are very. Now in this time, we're very aspirational. People always want to show their achievements, right. And they also always benchmarking the thing by by 20, I want to have this by 30, I want to have this by 40, I want to have this by 50. I want to have this. Right. And because of that, we also benchmarking ourselves, not just by age, but by peers, and peer groups and what people are achieving what people are not achieving. So I find and from observation, you can you can correct me if I'm wrong. When it become when it intrapreneurs it's almost feels like because of the the the endeavors they're taking. They may not go at the pace at the beginning of everyone else. How do you familia handle the social pressure of expectation like UPS, I'm sure you had people, your friends, your classmates, your cousins, who are like, You know what? I expect that you should be at this point in your life. How do you handle that pressure? If you did not, we're not on people's timetable.
J
Jamelia
19:00
Personally, I just shut out the background noise. How do you do that though? Focus, tunnel vision, this is what I'm doing. Okay, and I'm going to make it work. Okay. Now, whatever everybody else is doing, we can never be on the same footing. You know, I have colleagues who are medical doctors and others, you know, what, their that's their line? Yes. Yeah. And, and when I was starting out, people were like, what's this thing that you've chosen?
M
Melanie
19:28
Exactly. So how do you handle that? That talk that that chatter, you know, it's happening you can say, but how, and sometimes it stinks. Doesn't it hurt sometimes the doubt doesn't doubt
J
Jamelia
19:38
know for me, encourages me to go on. I'm like guys going to break this glass ceiling. Yeah, watch me. And I just focus and that I was so when I started this thing. Eventually when I got into it. I was like, You know what, this thing can be big. And it's going to be the next big thing. Yes. Yeah. And this time but but you know, you could nobody could See that? Yeah, not a big deal at the time was a big deal in other places, when you look at Nigeria, the way things are moving, but then Ugandans like to copy a lot. So you project and say in two, three years, that's where we're going to go. So other people couldn't see that. But I could, so whatever they were saying didn't matter. To me. I mean, I was looking at some guys and thought, What are you doing? Are you? I'm going to be okay, this looks like it's too risky. Yeah. And you know, they've figured it out. Yeah, I'm like, Okay, there's always a way to do if we fail, we look for Plan B, much more, hopefully, we want.
M
Melanie
20:35
And there's how did you handle that? Oh,
D
Davis
20:38
wow. Um, I think, yeah, you have to be careful with the voices he listened to and who you surround yourself with, okay. One, like like Jamila said, you know, converting negative energy to positive energy. When you have naysayers, just converting that into, you know, more power to you to resolve, you know, really show people that, you know, you mean, what you say? And you say what you mean. But, yeah, I think the people that you surround yourself with is really, really important, I think. So what else?
M
Melanie
21:07
So were you intentional about your friends and the company kept during this time?
D
Davis
21:11
Exactly. I kept a lot of founders around me. So you know, they create a bubble around safe space. Yeah, some kind of safe space, the future and the vision and what they have learned and, you know, encouragement and resilience, and you hear their war stories, and just really kind of being deliberate about the narrative that you keep around, of course, so there'll be chatter that will come? Yes, inevitably, yeah. But I think if you're truly focused on your mission, and your journey, and, and even when your other friends do well, in their other tracks, I think just genuinely being happy for them, helps rule out any kind of negative emotions on your part, oh, comparisons just genuinely be happy that somebody that, you know, has actually done well and made it and, you know, your turn to collect your flowers is gonna come
M
Melanie
21:58
Okay, of course, it still goes. That's interesting. I find that and, and, and I find that as people, and this is not just unique to our Ugandan society, very few of us are willing to celebrate each other, like the way we're supposed to, it's as if us celebrating you celebrating someone else takes away from your success or your ability to succeed. And yet, I, you know, I find that, you know, sometimes it's just says, you know, your time will come, it's fine, celebrate someone else be happy doesn't take away someone's success, even if you're in the same line of business. And, you know, that's the thing. I want to know. I don't know, if you guys are not familiar, you must have the area of competition, right? How do you handle competition on a personal level?
J
Jamelia
22:50
Okay, some of my closest friends are in this very industry. Yeah, I'm, I'm the CEO of Showtime events, and dico, the CEO of pink coconut decor, and that's sort of a really big thing, you know, is one of my best friends. We started out at the same time, we have walked this journey together. And we've encouraged each other, we, you know, when we have challenges, I'll pick up the phone and say, Angie, have you faced this before? How do we, you know, so for us, we're not we're not a competition competition, okay, a colleague, okay, we're doing this journey together. Everybody's walking, you know, we're walking side by side. And, and that's pretty much it. That's just how I see it. I look at everybody else, and I look at, um, you know, I could read off a couple of names, but I prefer to have them as my colleagues, I look at them. And I'm like, I can run this from so on. So if I'm able to help them this way, that's okay. We're all talented. It's all the cool, it's all events. But everyone has their
M
Melanie
23:47
strengths, you know, exactly their thing.
J
Jamelia
23:49
Thank you so much. When you recognize that and you're like, This is where I am strong. This is where my colleague is strong. How can we help each other behind the scenes? As opposed? Yes, antagonizing each other? It has worked for me very well.
M
Melanie
24:02
Has there been a situation where there is not typically good faith? Oh, yes. A lot of times and how okay, then can you give without going to details on this? Can you give us a situation and how you typically handle that that until because I'm sure in your business? Your business it
J
Jamelia
24:23
does happen a lot. Yeah. Um, I'll give you a typical example when when clients decide to do this gigs, weddings or whatever. They window shop for different, yeah. Service providers. Welcome to you all, I want this to go to another provider and and you know, and eventually they decide on who they're going to use and it's their right to in the shop. But sometimes, the way these clients approached us, they can give you a platform to shoot at a colleague. If you're not very careful. It's sometimes it can be tempting or sometimes they'll go wherever they've gone before what version they get to you. They've collected all this information and the economy. First thing they tell you is so and so say this about you so and so said that about you, if you if you're not able to just block that out of your mind, yeah, you it can be very disturbing. Yeah, and it happens a lot. It does happen a lot. But I choose to rise above that at the end of the day, the client, that's mine is going to find me.
M
Melanie
25:17
So do you do you get Do you have? How do you cope with that bit? Is it saying that you've gotten better with it better with it to time in terms of practicing just to mind your own business and not talk down colleagues? Or is it one of those things where you're like, you know, what is part of the business, it will happen, it will happen? How do you mentally handle that?
J
Jamelia
25:37
Because I don't participate in it myself? A lot of people know that now. Okay. Yeah. So they will not attack anything I'm doing because I don't do it back for me. I don't know what you're doing. Okay, I know what I'm doing. And I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. Yeah. If somebody chooses to go with me. That's alright. If they don't, that's all right. The one that's mine will come along. And I don't have to help them to find out. The only way to help them is to do the job. Exactly. speak for itself. And that has worked for me. I you know, all this politics and whatnot. Don't? I don't?
M
Melanie
26:18
Hey, Melanie, here. If you like this episode, please be sure to share her friend. And also don't forget to subscribe. And do you have any thoughts? I got good news for you then share those thoughts. on Facebook. It's EMS view. Simple. That's the name EMS view, Facebook page, like, subscribe, share. Cheers. Okay, David, I do have any real competition in this region?
D
Davis
26:49
I think for us most of the competition is with the old ways of doing this. And that's a different kind of competition when you're trying to change people's belief systems relationships, mindset mindset. Yeah, I think it's taken time and a lot of focus on quality, and building trust one relationship after the other, a lot of word of mouth. I think that that's more of the competition that that we see. As a result of COVID-19. Of course, the pandemic, a lot of like, new and that helped coming in. Yeah, it helped a lot. For sure. Yeah, little new entrants that think it's easy.
M
Melanie
27:29
And that's, that's the thing. So how do you handle the prospect of, of how do you handle the idea of competition or competition itself, or people, the old traditional sets, naysaying against your system, because they must be that resistance from the old institutions coming at you. Because for you, you're coming, it's big pharma, and you will try and there are all these things that you are disrupting. So how do you handle the naysayers?
D
Davis
27:57
I think COVID-19 was the greatest.
M
Melanie
28:01
Yeah, it was like I told you, so.
D
Davis
28:04
You know, everybody else said, you know, telemedicine is great. It's a nice to have, until in their own business and their own business models, it became a must have, yeah, they hadn't invested over time, the processes, the technology, the talent that he needed to actually make it happen. And when they tried to make it happen in the very short run, they realize that there's more to it than meets the eye. And it also inevitably, also made us look better, because now people could try to compare, you know, one service with Rocky Hill. And I think that will even propelled us even farther. And I think I really don't mind competition coming into the market, because there's still a lot of work to be done with changing mindsets, creating trust. I also don't mind competition, because it gives me an opportunity to compare and contrast who the better leading player is muscles if you're the only one in the category. So I think and also competition just makes you get better because you want to just set yourself far apart so it kind of pushes you to also improve you know, on everything else that you thought and we're getting comfortable with.
M
Melanie
29:11
I'm listening to this too. And I'm just like, wow, these people are deep and gracious. Because I'm I don't know if I would handle competition Well, I think I don't know to be honest, I don't I don't I think I'm very very competitive and I would like to watch people and hope to god I would react like you guys you know because of me I'm just really I'm just like bands coach
D
Davis
29:35
I think I made a mistake I think don't mistake that there is no fight
M
Melanie
29:40
fight by then of course there is fight Yeah, that's why I'm saying you guys are like oh, we're good. And I'm like, but your personality is in order for you guys to do business. You guys are like wolves read it just like that we dressed up now, because we fit in and I think
D
Davis
29:55
just fight pretty. I think it's sometimes people just fight dirty
M
Melanie
30:00
ranking for that fight fair fight.